Local Preachers’ Group on John's Gospel
Notes of meeting held 17th May 2010
John 14:8-17
The passage is part of Jesus’ final discourse to His disciples. Last week we thought about how important this was in John’s gospel. John uses the questions from the disciples, in this case Philip, to allow Jesus to reiterate his points and to repeat them. We asked why Philip is chosen for this particular question and wondered whether what we already knew about Philip was important to an understanding. Philip who is from Bethsaida is the disciple who brings people to Jesus in chapter 1. He tells Nathaniel about Jesus and asks him to “Come & see”, then later in the gospel he brings some Greeks to Jesus to ask a question. So is Philip asking this question for his own curiosity or to take the answer to someone else? Part of the problem is that Philip’s question comes from verse 7 which is not included in our passage. Without verse 7 being read it is difficult to understand why Phillip’s question should be so controversial. In verse 7 Jesus says “If you know me you will know my Father also. From now on you do know Him and have seen him.” This appears to be an explicit reference to Jesus seen as God. Then Phillip asks his question which in the light of verse 7 takes on a more specific meaning. The question allows Jesus to not only repeat his last point but reiterate it at length, so that not only Philip but all of us get it! This is made particularly explicit at verse 9. To orthodox Jews this would sound like blasphemy.
At verse 11 Jesus is saying that Philip should believe what he (Jesus) says but, if he cannot, then he only has to remember what he has seen (Miracles); he can believe in the evidence of his own eyes. Jesus then goes on to say (verse 12) that those who do believe what he says will be able to do what he has done and more. This links to Acts where the Apostles do miracles just like Jesus, and to Low Sunday’s reading from John chapter 20, where the disciples are commissioned to forgive sins. We had a short discussion on the difficulty of verses 13 and 14, where Jesus says that he will do anything asked for in his name. Some people see this and passages like it as a promise to give anything asked for, and this can lead some people to great disappointment when the things they ask for do not happen at all or not as soon as they would like.
We felt that the key was to ask in Jesus’ name, but also like Jesus did in the garden of Gethsemane, where he asked for God’s will to be done. We referred to the film Bruce Almighty where God gives Bruce the power to answer prayers. Bruce says yes to everyone but then things start to go horribly wrong, because what one person wants conflicts with someone else, and the universe cannot support it. Because we cannot see the whole picture we need to trust God and His will when we ask for things. Many people still have a problem with this and some have left the church because they expect God to answer all their prayers in a positive manner. Is this because they have such a literal understanding of this and other verses of a similar nature? Some people blame God for everything that goes wrong in the world, and yet our faith has come down to us from people who have endured terrible hardships and persecution and still trusted in God’s promises. We have to be aware of all these things when we preach.
A difficulty of this passage is once again that it is only a very small part of a much larger whole. In some translations there is a paragraph heading before verse 15 which seems to cut verses 15 – 17 off from the rest. Not only does this passage need Philip’s question to make sense of the start, but it also needs verses 18 – 21 to finish off Jesus’ answer to Philip’s question. Verses 18 – 21 add a final promise which seems essential to an understanding of what is being said here, and would be very helpful when preaching from this lectionary reading.
We are aware after last week that this final discourse of Jesus is one whole piece of teaching which begins at Chapter 13. To understand chapter 14 verse 15 one does have to have read chapter 13 in which Jesus gives the disciples a new commandment (Chapter 13: 31 – 35) chapter 14 verse 15 obviously refers back to this new commandment on which is dependant the receipt of the Holy Spirit. We all particularly liked the use of the translation ‘Advocate’ which in English has overtones o which are not only legal but also of comfort and help. An Advocate always speaks on someone’s behalf; they never accuse. In this respect we felt that this was a better word than either paraclete or counsellor. We felt that this was very important. The paradox is that an Advocate is comforting while the Spirit can be agitating.
Verse 15 takes some living up to. We all love Jesus, but do we always obey his commandments? We try but do we always succeed? Do we live up to the expectations that others have of Christians? We felt that it was the trying that mattered most, but non-Christians only see the results! Even Paul wrote that the “good he would do he did not………”. We are all struggling together-we know that-but how are we seen from the outside? All our congregations come as believers and we cannot preach the sort of exhortations that Wesley preached to the unconverted. We know that we all fail to live up to verse 15 but we are all trying to live lives based on Jesus’ teaching, and to preach anything else would be insulting and lay us open to a charge of hypocrisy.
The more we study John the more we realise that everything in it is connected. Verse 17 refers back to Chapter one where the world does not recognise the “Word”. The Spirit is the replacement for Jesus’ physical body, and all who accept Jesus will receive the Holy Spirit. Those who do not believe in Jesus will not. This can be difficult to accept. What do we say to those who believe that the Spirit can work through men and women of other faiths? With the Spirit inside us we will have inner peace.
We believe that John is writing to help people not just to believe that Jesus is the Son of God, but to know it. John wants his readers to have more than faith, he wants them to have knowledge.
Our impression of this passage was that it seemed more suitable for Trinity than Pentecost, because only the last two verses refer to the giving of the Holy Spirit, while the bulk of the passage refers to Jesus’ relationship with God. In our opinion, if verse 18 were included in this reading, it would help with the understanding of the Trinity.
What would we preach on?
- The reading from Acts linking it to the gospel.
- Verses 15 – 17 not 8 – 16
- The fact that this is preparation for the disciples to carry on after Jesus is no longer with them physically. This is our position—we too have to rely on the Spirit to teach us the truth about Jesus.